Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124
02/28/2018 06:00 PM House RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB367 | |
| HB355 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 367 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 355 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 28, 2018
6:06 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Andy Josephson, Co-Chair
Representative Geran Tarr, Co-Chair
Representative John Lincoln, Vice Chair
Representative Justin Parish
Representative Chris Birch
Representative DeLena Johnson
Representative George Rauscher
Representative David Talerico
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Harriet Drummond
Representative Mike Chenault (alternate)
Representative Chris Tuck (alternate)
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 367
"An Act relating to the liability of a Native corporation for
the release or threatened release of hazardous substances
present on certain lands."
- MOVED HB 367 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 355
"An Act relating to the crime of criminally negligent burning;
relating to protection of and fire management on forested land;
relating to prohibited acts and penalties for prohibited acts on
forested land; and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 367
SHORT TITLE: NATIVE CORP. LIABILITY FOR CONTAMINATION
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) MILLETT
02/21/18 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/21/18 (H) RES, JUD
02/26/18 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
02/26/18 (H) Heard & Held
02/26/18 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/28/18 (H) RES AT 6:00 PM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 355
SHORT TITLE: FIRE;FOREST LAND; CRIMES;FIRE PREVENTION
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) GUTTENBERG
02/16/18 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/16/18 (H) RES, JUD
02/28/18 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
02/28/18 (H) RES AT 6:00 PM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
JEFFREY MAKIN, Attorney/Partner
Arent Fox
Los Angeles, California
POSITION STATEMENT: Speaking on behalf of the Alaska Native
Village Corporation Association, offered to answer questions
during the hearing of HB 367.
NATHAN MCCOWAN, Chair, Board of Directors
Alaska Native Village Corporation Association; President/CEO
St. George Tanaq Corporation
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support during the hearing of
HB 367.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVID GUTTENBERG
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Speaking as the sponsor, answered questions
during the hearing of HB 355.
JOHN "CHRIS" MAISCH, State Forester; Director
Division of Forestry
Department of Natural Resources
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing of HB
355.
JAMES SQUYRES
Rural Deltana, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition during the hearing
of HB 355.
MIKE TRIMMER, Acting Fire Management Officer
Valdez Copper River Area
Division of Forestry
Department of Natural Resources
Glennallen, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support during the hearing of
HB 355.
ACTION NARRATIVE
6:06:35 PM
CO-CHAIR ANDY JOSEPHSON called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at [6:06] p.m. Representatives
Josephson, Johnson, Talerico, Lincoln, and Tarr were present at
the call to order. Representatives Parish, Birch, and Rauscher
arrived as the meeting was in progress.
HB 367-NATIVE CORP. LIABILITY FOR CONTAMINATION
6:06:57 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 367, "An Act relating to the liability of a
Native corporation for the release or threatened release of
hazardous substances present on certain lands."
6:07:15 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON opened public testimony on HB 367.
6:08:31 PM
JEFFREY MAKIN, Attorney/Partner, Arent Fox, informed the
committee he serves as outside counsel to the Alaska Native
Village Corporation Association (ANVCA), and was available to
answer questions.
6:08:54 PM
NATHAN MCCOWAN, Chair, Board of Directors, ANVCA, and
President/CEO, St. George Tanaq Corporation, stated ANVCA
strongly supports HB 367. The bill is part of a multi-party
longitudinal effort to bring resolution to a problem that has
affected village corporate entities since lands were conveyed to
the corporations that were formed pursuant to provisions of the
Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act, beginning in the '70s.
Further, HB 367 is needed to correct the injustice that occurred
when the federal government - without notification - conveyed
contaminated lands to Native corporations. Mr. McCowan stressed
ANVCA supports the bill in its current form, without the
inclusion of protections for post-conveyance contamination.
6:10:28 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON, after ascertaining no one further wished to
testify, closed public testimony.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH expressed his support for the bill.
6:11:21 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to report HB 367 out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal
notes. There being no objection, HB 367 was reported from the
House Resources Standing Committee.
6:11:52 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 6:11 p.m. to 6:14 p.m.
HB 355-FIRE;FOREST LAND; CRIMES;FIRE PREVENTION
6:14:56 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced that the final order of business
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 355, "An Act relating to the crime of
criminally negligent burning; relating to protection of and fire
management on forested land; relating to prohibited acts and
penalties for prohibited acts on forested land; and providing
for an effective date."
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON reminded the committee the deadline for
amendments to HB 355 was 5:00 p.m. on [3/1/18].
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER stated his intention to offer
amendments.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON opened public testimony.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH stated his intention to offer an amendment
related to the definition of forested land.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON questioned whether Representative Parish was
concerned about the definition because it may be used in
criminal proceedings.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH pointed out all disputes may not be
resolved in court; for example, the legality of firecrackers set
off on a beach.
6:18:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DAVID GUTTENBERG, Alaska State Legislature,
speaking as the sponsor of HB 355, informed the committee
amendments that strengthen and clarify a bill are not a problem;
however, he cautioned an amendment to a definition in HB 355 may
affect other statutes.
6:18:51 PM
JOHN "CHRIS" MAISCH, State Forester; Director, Division of
Forestry, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), stated forested
land is defined in several sections of statute, particularly in
the Alaska Forest Resources and Practices Act, and thus has
multiple meanings across various statutes. He also cautioned an
amendment to HB 355 could affect other statutory citations. Mr.
Maisch pointed out the definition of forested land must be broad
enough to include all flammable materials, and gave an example
of burning material flying through the air and igniting fires in
a nearby subdivision. He said the definition is written to
include "any type of burnable material that's vegetative in
nature."
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH asked whether the aforementioned
subdivision was "temporarily forested land."
MR. MAISCH remarked:
Forested land would be where the fire was ignited, and
the point of origin, which was in the yard, in that
fluff ... so, for the purposes of this statute and how
it's enforced, that would have been a burnable fuel
type. So, whether you would include unburnable, you
know, surfaces in forested land, now that gets ...
down in the weeds a bit, but it's where the fire
originates from is the issue. It would not originate
from asphalt, typically, but it could. ... Hot brakes
can start fires, it's pretty amazing the type of
ignition sources we have for fires ....
6:22:05 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON opened public testimony on HB 355.
6:22:20 PM
JAMES SQUYRES testified in opposition to HB 355 as currently
written. He urged the committee to amend the bill in order to
bring AS 42.15 "in line with constitutional elements" within
[Article 12 - General Provisions, Section 5. Oath of Office], of
the Alaska State Constitution. He directed attention to the
bill [on page 2, lines 7-15], which read:
Sec. 41.15.040. Right of entry to control and suppress
fires. Upon approval by the commissioner or an
authorized agent, an employee of the division of
forestry [LANDS], or of any organization authorized to
prevent, control, or suppress a fire or a destructive
agent, and others assisting in the control or
suppression of a fire upon request of an officer or
employee of the United States or the state may at any
time enter upon any land, whether publicly or
privately owned, for the purpose of preventing,
investigating, suppressing, or controlling a wildland
fire or a destructive agent.
MR. SQUYRES remarked:
Director Chris Maisch testified before this committee
earlier today that prevention terminology, that was
used in the past, is being used as a basis for
extending language to include investigations of an
event after the fact. ... What is in question is
current prevention terminology that is currently in
conflict with [Article 1 - Declaration of Rights,
Section 14. Searches and Seizures, of the Alaska State
Constitution]. Currently, a forestry employee is
considered a peace officer under Alaska Statute
41.15.950, and may climb over a locked and posted
gate, and walk down your driveway ... where you've
clearly expressed your expectation of privacy, without
probable cause that a crime is being committed to
prevent a wildfire. Now, none of us have a problem if
there is probable cause, but [Article 1 - Declaration
of Rights, Section 22. Right of Privacy, of the Alaska
State Constitution] indicates that the right of ...
people to privacy is recognized and shall not be
infringed. The reason they want to add investigation
language is to put into statute this veil of authority
to enter onto private property without warrant. The
scary part is when Director Maisch indicates that they
already have the right simply because it's already in
statute. It is in conflict with the constitution.
MR. SQUYRES further noted testimony related to constitutional
elements was directed to the statute and not to the proposed
amendment to statute. He advised the committee to remove both
the words "prevention" and "investigation" from AS 41.15.040 to
realign the statute with its title, and with the Alaska State
Constitution. Mr. Squyres also urged for a title change in AS
41.15.040 from "Right" to "Authority." Further, within AS
41.15.950, he cautioned against the terminology of peace officer
as applied to "employees of forestry" who are not trained as
peace officers; he described a procedure pursuant to AS
11.61.220, Misconduct of Weapons in the Fifth Degree, and opined
that is a procedure a person on a fire crew is not trained to
perform.
6:26:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER referred to two forthcoming amendments
"that take care of some of the problems that you mentioned."
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON asked Mr. Squyres whether he was concerned
that Division of Forestry officers have a hidden agenda.
MR. SQUYRES said there are opportunities for abuse. He gave an
example of a former fire prevention officer who proposed a fire
prevention plan to the Deltana Community Corporation. A
provision in the prevention plan said, "after three calls,
according to its plan, they were just going to come by your
place and walk down your driveway ... whether you were burning
that fire at that time, or not." Although this provision was
removed from the plan, he restated his concerns about the
opportunity for abuse by fire prevention officers, and about
[untrained] members of fire crews designated as peace officers.
Mr. Squyres agreed it is time to align and modernize the
affected statute.
6:29:35 PM
MIKE TRIMMER, Acting Fire Management Officer, Valdez Copper
River Area, Division of Forestry, DNR, expressed his support of
HB 355. He informed the committee the bail schedule [provision
within HB 355] is an important enforcement piece of the fire
prevention program that has been missing. Currently,
enforcement options are a verbal warning, or a written warning,
or a misdemeanor citation and mandatory court appearance. He
said multiple verbal and written warnings are weak; therefore,
frontline firefighters and initial attack incident commanders
need to take care of some enforcement issues directly at the
scene, and avoid a later investigation. In addition, a bail
schedule would provide a component of public education through a
commonly known schedule of fines. Mr. Trimmer said fire
prevention officers do not want to make criminals out of those
who forget to get a burn permit. From his experience, he said
it is a rare occurrence that a fire investigator needs to come
to the fire scene after the fact, because initial attack
firefighters are trained to preserve the point of origin, and to
perform basic preliminary fire investigations; if they could
also issue a violation for non-misdemeanor/felony events, the
work would be done. In fact, there are few qualified fire
investigators in the state, which creates delays in
investigations and staffing issues, and fewer investigations
would also mean fewer right-of-entry concerns.
6:33:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH asked for Mr. Trimmer to comment on the
definition of fire prevention officer as peace officer, and on
the concealed carry [law].
MR. TRIMMER expressed his understanding he and his employees are
noncommissioned officers who do not - and do not wish to - carry
badges or guns. As to the forested land issue, he advised the
fuel has to be able to support the carry and spread of wildland
fire. In further response to Representative Parish, he opined
forested land has to be able to support the ignition and spread
of fire, and sparse green grass on a beach at the side of the
ocean is not forested land, although by definition it may be.
Tundra supports fire, as do hayfields and grass before turning
green, and he added, "... I don't think you'd find a prevention
officer in the state trying to cite anybody for anything
different than that, regardless of, of what the definition is."
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH referred to earlier testimony that
investigations performed at the time of the fire reduce division
staffing.
MR. TRIMMER restated engine captains and incident commanders are
trained in basic investigation and prevention skills, and thus
can define the point of origin, determine the cause, and
establish protection. Although a fire that spreads and damages
property would require a fully qualified fire investigator, most
incidents can be handled by the initial attack resources if a
bail schedule of violations were in place.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH asked whether the bill's definition of
forested land would confuse members of the public.
MR. TRIMMER, speaking from his experience, said there was no
confusion by Alaskans; fireworks discharged on a graveled area
over a body of water are legal by state statute, unless
prohibited by local ordinances.
6:40:23 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON, after ascertaining no one else wished to
testify, closed public testimony on HB 355.
HB 355 was held over.
6:41:19 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at [6:41]
p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 355 Sectional Analysis 2.21.18.pdf |
HRES 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM HRES 3/5/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/9/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 355 |
| HB 355 Sponsor Statement 2.21.18.pdf |
HRES 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM HRES 3/5/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/9/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 355 |
| HB 355 Supporting Document- Expanded One Pager 2.21.18.pdf |
HRES 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM HRES 3/5/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/9/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 355 |
| HB 355 Ver A 2.21.18.pdf |
HRES 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM HRES 3/5/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/9/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 355 |
| DNR Fiscal Note, HB 355.pdf |
HRES 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM HRES 3/5/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 355 |
| Law Fiscal Note, HB 355.pdf |
HRES 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM HRES 3/5/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/9/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 355 |
| HB 367 Fiscal Note.pdf |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| HRES ANVCA Contaminated Lands Presentation 2.12.18.pdf |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| House Bill 367 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| House Bill 367 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| House Bill 367 Supporting Docs 2016 Report to Congress ANSCA Contaminated Lands.pdf |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| House Bill 367 Supporting Docs ANCSA-CONTAMINATED-LAND_Congress.pdf |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| House Bill 367 Supporting Docs October 2016 ATCEM ANCSA.pdf |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| HB367 Supporting Documents - Contaminated_Lands_Inventory_of_ANCSA_Conveyed_Lands.pdf |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| House Bill 367 Supporting Docs 1998 Report to Congress ANSCA Contaminated Lands.pdf |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| House Bill 367 V. A.PDF |
HRES 2/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM |
HB 367 |
| HB 355 Supporting Document- Alaska Fire Chiefs Letter of Support 2.28.18.pdf |
HRES 2/28/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 2/28/2018 6:00:00 PM HRES 3/5/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/9/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 355 |